Are there any Type of Magick needs no visualization ?

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Original post: Nalyd23

Hey Fr. Manjet, my quote worked.:lol:

edit: as to not create a one-liner..... "Oh yeah you A.I...... S.O.B! :lol:

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Original post: Ludi

I'm glad we are, thanks for clarifying the ALL CAPS.

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Original post: Horus

[QUOTE=Frater Manjet]I am often at odds with the term "visualization" as it is so commonly connected only with the "visual" or optical faculties of image. Visualization as was mentioned here earlier is far more than "seeing" an image. Visualizations can and in my case often do include the spectrum of sensory images. Smell is an image, sound is an image etc...

I would also like to point out that as our physical senses are are merely processed stimuli within our brains; and that I apply the same concept on a deeper level to the faculty of mind. To me concepts and emotions are also aspects of visualization. I have had many visions of abstract concepts that cannot be conveyed other than by experience.[/QUOTE]I agree 100%. I think a lot of problems for the non-visual people [edit-hehe]would disappear[edit] if instructions were given to "imagine" rather than visualize.

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Original post: Ludi

I think a lot of problems for the non-visual people if instructions were given to "imagine" rather than visualize.

That would have helped me a lot, I tend to "feel" as much as "see," or more. Sometimes I only conceptualise, which doesn't create a visual image for me.

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Original post: kollision

I believe that ultimatly they are all combined to visualization. When you feel, you tend to make up the iamges or visualize them. For example touching a cup. You get the feeling stimulated and then that stimulation cause you to visualize it. I dont know if I am making sense to you guys but just thought Id put in my opinion.

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Original post: palindroem

I'd like to back-up a bit and delve a bit into a tangent (although basically on-topic).

Yoga and asana's as a form of magick that requires no (or little, depending) visualization.

Fr. Manjet gave an opinion that asanas aren't really magick, more of a tool.
I'd like to say that in that light, most all magickal practices could be considered merely tools. But I personally feel this misses the point that for many, the ritual or the talisman or the device in general is considered our tangible reference to "the magick".
Asana's, I'm my opinion, can be as much "the magick" as the performance of ritua or the creation of a talisman . . . even as much as taking a god-form or an invocation.

I personally consider them as a living talisman, taking on a god-form . . . . an invocation of a type.
It is active magick . . . in sense.

Just my opinion.

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Original post: Frater Manjet

Very well put Pali,

I have no disagreement with you on this level of yogic practice. I thought you were refering to the more exoteric, or as I call it "health club" yoga where there is little or no use of such imagery or intent. I was probaly thrown off by the comments on little or no visualization involved. My apologies.

The work you describe is most certainly magick. I agree 100% with you there. I will say that when I am doing such work though my visualizations or ( imaginations as was suggested ) are very important.

You have piqued my interest in perhaps attempting to strip away the visualization aspects of my ritual yoga. I already have some very sound associations built so that might not be too difficult. If I am following your thought here it is more of just the experience of "being" in the form. I admit that yoga is an area of my work that needs more attention.

- VVV