What Is Enlightenment... Really?

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Original post: maynoth

What Is Enlightenment... Really?

I have read countless books, meditated hundreds of hours, to try find out what exactly enlightenment is...

The conclusions I have found might surprise you, but first I want to warn you if you seriously entertain the theories I am about to present you may have a psychotic break or a serious existential crisis...

Iâ??ve waded through so much esoteric babble it makes me sick, because what enlightenment really is very simple, as a matter of fact it is that which cannot be simpler.




Enlightenment isnâ??t something you gain, or something which betters your life, or anything like what your thinking it might be. Enlightenment is the removal of all false beliefs, and emotional attachments from a persons mind, which amounts to pretty much everything you have accumulated over the course of your life. What remains is a completely empty mind, devoid off all that is false.

The reason not many ever achieve it, is because it isnâ??t something which can be desired from an egoic viewpoint. There is no way to be enlightened and still love your family, or friends, or material possessions, or anything really. Also it becomes impossible to hate anything even the most unspeakable of evils. You can see from this description why most people turn away, before they ever get close to it.

Enlightenment is achieved by examining ones own beliefs, and discarding the ones which have no reality outside of your own mind. Now that sounds easy until you realize all beliefs have no reality outside your own mind. Words, symbols, pictures, memories, none of them exist outside the confines of your mind. The language you have learned, everything you your were ever taught in school, the customs, the way you act, who you are, your memories, everything that makes you "you" it doesnâ??t exist outside of your mind.

So if all that is gone, is there anything which still makes you human? The answer is no. There is nothing, nothing at all.




When reality is viewed from this perspective, there is only the interaction of waveforms, and the arrangement of matter and energy swirling around like a vast ocean. There are no "things" only a continually evolving pattern, or tapestry of waveforms. Human language and thoughts have no basis. There is no context, or content. All is one, observer and observed.

The Buddha said we were all asleep, and itâ??s true. We are. Enlightenment is about unlearning what isnâ??t, and seeing reality as it is.

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world."
-Buddha

"It is your mind that creates this world."
-Buddha

"The world, indeed, is like a dream and the treasures of the world are an alluring mirage! Like the apparent distances in a picture, things have no reality in themselves, but they are like heat haze."
-Buddha

"A wise man, recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, so he escapes the suffering."
-Buddha

"He who loves 50 people has 50 woes; he who loves no one has no woes."
-Buddha

In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then beleive them to be true.
-Buddha

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: maynoth

True enlightenment goes beyond just an intellectual understanding, into the realm of direct perception. I make use of a lot of analogies because I don't really know how to explain what I have come to understand in a better way without the use of meaningless esoteric babble-jargon.

The universe seems to be made of not matter, but interacting waveforms, with no fundamental building block to be found. I can't think of a better way to describe that. To me its more like we're observing a thought, than a mathematical construct, except we are also apart of it, staring back at itself. Buddha actually discussed subatomic particles in length in about 2500 years ago. He called them kalapas, which phase into and out of existence trillions of time per second, in a constant state of flux.


From what I understand, we are apart of the universe, just as cells are apart of our body. You and I are the same being, having a different experience. We are all one mind, and one consciousness.

We are multicellular organisms, collections of cells acting in concert to give rise to an illusion we call consciousness. Our bodies are in fact an advanced cellular society. A collective mind made of 100 billion citizens, each sharing information in the form of electrochemical signals sent out over a vast neural network.

Perhaps with the advancement of telecommunications and the internet, we are all coming together in a similar manner. We all share information, via the internet, and influence countless others with our online interactions. Perhaps we unknowingly giving rise to a collective consciousness in which we play the roles of neurons.

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Original post: maynoth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX_EP2Nk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXmzcroUmdU

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Original post: maynoth

Paradox
By Jed McKenna

You will never achieve spiritual enlightenment
The you that you think of as you is not you,
The you that thinks of you as you is not you.
There is no you, so who wishes to become enlightened?

Who is not enlightened?
Who will become enlightened?
Who will BE enlightened?

Enlightenment is your destiny â?? more certain than
Sunrise.

You cannot fail to achieve enlightenment.
Were you told otherwise?
Irresistible forces compel you. The universe insists.
It's not within your power to fail.

There is no path to enlightenment:
It lies in all directions at all times.
On the journey to enlightenment, you create and
Destroy your own path with every step.

No one can follow another's path.
No one can step off the path.
No one can lead another.
No one can turn back.
No one can stop.

Enlightenment is closer than your skin,
More immediate than your next breath,
And forever beyond your reach.

It need not be sought because it cannot be found.
It cannot be found because it is not lost.
It cannot be lost because it is not other than that which seeks.

The paradox is that there is no paradox.
Is that not the damnedest thing?

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Original post: Draginvry

"Enlightenment is what happens when you stop looking for answers, and instead start creating them." - Draginvry

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Original post: simex

I agree with your assessment; that enlightenment is simply unlearning all the BS your brain needs to survive, and seeing clearly the truth that would make survival trivial.

It's too bad that even if you comprehend this idea perfectly, you are still not enlightened. Even the most perfect description of enlightenment will lead you away from it, because it will stir in you the memories of this apparent reality.

A doll made of salt goes to test the depth of a lake, and never returns.

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Original post: IAO131

93,

"We are not to regard ourselves as base beings, without whose sphere is Light or "God". Our minds and bodies are veils of the Light within. The uninitiate is a "Dark Star", and the Great Work for him is to make his veils transparent by 'purifying' them. This 'purification' is really 'simplification'; it is not that the veil is dirty, but that the complexity of its folds makes it opaque. The Great Work therefore consists principally in the solution of complexes. Everything in itself is perfect, but when things are muddled, they become 'evil'."

Enlightenment is recognizing this. This is the first half of 'Initiation,' known as 'Solve.' The second half is putting this recognition into action, 'Coagula,' and working your Will of joy upon earth.

IAO131

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Original post: The_Spirit_of_Truth

[QUOTE=maynoth;345853]What Is Enlightenment... Really?[/QUOTE]
Enlightenment is the attainment of feelings by means of which you feel and understand the essence of the entire Creation.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: corbin_israfael

[QUOTE=maynoth;345857]Paradox
By Jed McKenna

You will never achieve spiritual enlightenment
The you that you think of as you is not you,
The you that thinks of you as you is not you.
There is no you, so who wishes to become enlightened?

Who is not enlightened?
Who will become enlightened?
Who will BE enlightened?

Enlightenment is your destiny â?? more certain than
Sunrise.

You cannot fail to achieve enlightenment.
Were you told otherwise?
Irresistible forces compel you. The universe insists.
It's not within your power to fail.

There is no path to enlightenment:
It lies in all directions at all times.
On the journey to enlightenment, you create and
Destroy your own path with every step.

No one can follow another's path.
No one can step off the path.
No one can lead another.
No one can turn back.
No one can stop.

Enlightenment is closer than your skin,
More immediate than your next breath,
And forever beyond your reach.

It need not be sought because it cannot be found.
It cannot be found because it is not lost.
It cannot be lost because it is not other than that which seeks.

The paradox is that there is no paradox.
Is that not the damnedest thing?[/QUOTE]I agree completely.

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Original post: Cunning-Man

"My horns won't fit through the door..."

-Zen monk moments before remembering that he is not, in fact, an ox.

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Original post: MatthewK

What Is Enlightenment... Really?

Answer:

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Original post: Uni_Verse

What if you become something else?
The music may not be real, but it is still fun to dance
What is fun?
I won't answer because I can't tell you what fun is
Because fun has at least 6.66 billion definitions
Unless, of course, you are one...

So what is enlightenment?
Knowing, and understanding, what fun means to You.
Then you will know who this "You" is
That is when you start knowing what it means not to be "You"
And appreciate what it means to be You
Another 6.66 billion different answers

For me it was in The Mole People by Jennifer Toth
Of course in another minute that could all change
As in a moment you could drift for an eternity
Or take another step towards the bed made
All, because, you are a frayed (edge)!

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Draginvry

Enlightenment is the state of being in the light as opposed to the darkness.

It's like trying to stumble around your house in the dark. You will likely bump into many things, and feel very foolish. "Enlightenment" is merely the moment when you realize there is a light switch.

But you will still bump into many things before actually finding the light switch.

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Original post: S33k3R

I've always regarded Enlightenment as a bit to final for my liking...bit like the concept of heaven..to absolute

"Oh good you are here now...been a good boy have you?, so heres the keys to your Lexus and thats your mansion over there on the hill with the nice view.

Except instead of a Lexus you get "understanding"...then what? you sit on a mountain, grow your beard and get to say pretentious sounding things, (or simply be quite and have a smug smile on your face?)

For me, it is the seeking, the journey, the act of learning itself that is the reward...I seek enlightenment, hoping never to find it, for if I do...what shall I seek?

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle

For me, it is the seeking, the journey, the act of learning itself that is the reward...I seek enlightenment, hoping never to find it, for if I do...what shall I seek?

Hypothesising about a state of existence that is transcendent and putting value judgements like concepts of enlightenment as being reward based or determined by some omnipotent source is to me misleading.

There's a lot of literature about 'getting there' although 'there' is not always a place or a degree in illumination etc.

Theravada Buddhism holds that the individual attaining enlightenment is the pinnacle of succesful practise. I think. Mahayana holds that becoming and Arahant is not the conclusion but moving further and being a bodhisattva to help others achieve a similar state is the main goal of taking refuge in the three gems.

Regardless of whether it's a state of mind, a state of limitless compassion or eternity in a pureland with the other realized beings nobody hands you any keys.

Theravada is a school, Mahayana is a vehicle, maybe the point is learning how to drive the Lexus (mind) and knowing that the destination doesn't matter (GPS is somewhat misleading) is a bad but somewhat cogent analogy. Or at least I think so.

Anyway that's just my mangled interpretation of Buddhist ideas on enlightenment. Old men sitting on mountains prognosticating, giving riddles and smiling smugly seems more a goal of delusion than enlightenment.

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Original post: S33k3R

Ahh, so its more akin to upgrading your mental wheels from a buggered Toyota Corrola to Mercades SLK, (I'll take the 5.5...AMG'd please..in black, oh and don' forget the low profiles and carbon hubs). I could seek all day in that mofo.

You still get to cruise around, just looking cooler in a much more comfortable ride, (easier to get laid in a merc to).

Sadly, (for me), your "somewhat bad but cogent analogy" makes perfect sense. Thanks.

Ohmmmmmm......

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Original post: Anathema_Oracle

Ahh, so its more akin to upgrading your mental wheels from a buggered Toyota Corrola to Mercades SLK, (I'll take the 5.5...AMG'd please..in black, oh and don' forget the low profiles and carbon hubs). I could seek all day in that mofo.

Ya but no but yeah. I don't think that's the general idea pertaining to enlightenment. It's more complicated/simple less communicable than that.

I mean, Buddha made 84,000, teachings, I don't believe for the hell of it.

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Original post: AlTan

IMO, the word basically means becoming conscious. The religious/mystical philosophy analyses can go off on several tangents of what this means, or emphasize that you can't understand what it means to be conscious when you are semi-conscious.

What is it...really? What kind of answer could one possibly give here? The only satisfactory answer is one that "enlightens", meaning the answer is the experience. I'm not one of those who considers it anathema to speculate about enlightenment. Although beyond a certain point, speculation can end up bogging things down, it can also be a help in moving toward enlightenment.

Although enlightement is surely nothing that can be said about it, I think it's no reason to throw away all maps and stick figure diagrams just because they're not the territory. It's that "....really" part of the question that I think dooms all answers as unrealistic.

For me, the best answer is to be given any insight on HOW to attain enlightenment, and then go about attainting it, whether this be in terms of methods or un-methods, structured or not. One of the major elements of the path to enlightenment is deconditioning one's self at every level one can identify, to reach what goes beyond identification.

I also don't believe enlightenment is the be all and end all of existence. For some it may well be, but to me it is only a beginning. You are conscious...and then what? Who knows until you are "there", which is "here and now" as someone I think implied on this thread.

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Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=AlTan;347135]It's that "....really" part of the question that I think dooms all answers as unrealistic..[/QUOTE]

I'm more inclined to believe that it's the "is" part of the question that dooms all answers as unrealistic. Enlightenment can't really be defined. A better question would be "What is not Enlightenment?"

Because it's much easier to define what enlightenment is not, than what enlightenment is. If you eliminate from your life everything that enlightenment is not, then probability dictates that you will eventually find enlightenment.

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Original post: S33k3R

Good point Draginvry, its more about stripping away all the useless bollocks of our existence, leaving a pure essence.

bugger, there goes my Merc...

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Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=S33k3R;347249]Good point Draginvry, its more about stripping away all the useless bollocks of our existence, leaving a pure essence. [/QUOTE]

I'd be willing to bet that if you stripped away all the nonsensical thinking, that what is left is enlightenment.

Perhaps what we call enlightenment is nothing more than a complete lack of bullshit.

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Original post: IAO131

[QUOTE=Draginvry;347254]I'd be willing to bet that if you stripped away all the nonsensical thinking, that what is left is enlightenment.

Perhaps what we call enlightenment is nothing more than a complete lack of bullshit.[/QUOTE]

If by bullshit you mean duality.

Enlightenment means different things to different people, also.

For example, to a Theravada Buddhist it would be escape from the cycle of death and rebirth, similar to Hindu notions. For Mahayana Buddhist it would mean recognizing your 'Buddha-nature' or true nature and coming back 'down' to help others attain to that state. In Zen its seeing true nature and continuing on, similar to Thelemic & Taoist in that it lacks the metaphysical trappings of Buddhism.

IAO131

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Original post: S33k3R

Again, those are the "end points" of the process...where you get to.

But its the bailing of the bollocks overboard, so your spiritual vessel may be enlightened, (because bollocks is heavy), that actually gets you there.

I think I've just had my first zen moment

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Original post: IAO131

[QUOTE=S33k3R;347283]Again, those are the "end points" of the process...where you get to.

But its the bailing of the bollocks overboard, so your spiritual vessel may be enlightened, (because bollocks is heavy), that actually gets you there.

I think I've just had my first zen moment[/QUOTE]

As someone else retold...

"My horns won't fit through the door!"


Yes, there is room for absurdity in enlightenment.

IAo131

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Original post: S33k3R

Of course there is, thats why the buddha is always laughing.