Asatru prophecy

[Bjorn]

and no more shall the bear and the spider talk...no wind shall bow upon the sands until that day comes
thus saith the Lord Odin Valfather of the Asir

this prophecy was accompanied by a vision:

i stood in a temple as man was turning from the old ways. Odin reached down and grabbed a large item and blew into it and it became the Wyvernex...the creature that Odin sealed inside the heart of a glacier...and then it deflated as if it had been torn...and he said those words to the former priest and then i found myself on a storm racked shore with 2 people about to perish in the waves, and he said the words again...then i woke up...in this vision as Odin called me, he called me Brother Ve'

can anyone help me...this is a vision i had just a little bit ago.

[Occultess]

Did any of this appear to be in present day or was it all in the past?

[Stukov]

Pretty sure Odin died in Ragnarok, if you saw this it is likely either some other being pretending to be Odin, or a memory from a long time ago. That unless Odin is communicating to you from the past (him speaking to you in his future).

[Bjorn]

this was all in the past...and Ragnarok has not yet happened so Odin has not yet died.

and i live in Alaska

[TheSeeker]

...Ragnarok has not yet happened so Odin has not yet died.

[thumbup]

[Occultess]

this was all in the past...and Ragnarok has not yet happened so Odin has not yet died.

and i live in Alaska

Well, I can't say for sure, but I'd say that if everything you saw (including the part where the ocean was tossing, which appeared to be the fulfullment of what Odin had said would be), then I would say that it was something that has already come to pass. So, Stukov may be right in it being a memory.

If it's got anything to do with the future, all I can think of would be in a context of history repeating itself.

In any event, meditating on what you saw may shed more light on what it was trying to say to you, whether it was a memory or something else.

[Stukov]

I still maintain that Ragnarok (fall of asgard has occured (quite a while ago actually), Odin is gone, Sif is gone, as most asgardians have, with Thor remaining, alone despite the prophecy he was going to die in a glorious battle in Ragnarock. But perhaps I am alone in this vision.

[Bjorn]

We of asgard have not yet gone or died.

[Nahemah]

Our Gods do die.This is true.

I believe Ragnarok already happened.

When Norther turns against Norther and brother slays brother?

Aye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

When the Northern Christians rose against their Pagan countryfolk,their own kith and kindred,for wealth,power and land taken from them both and realloted to the victor,under the pay of foreign princes,that seems pretty much like Ragnarok to me.

Bjorn, are you not already familiar with the story of Vili and Ve?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_V%C3%A9

[Occultess]

While I was reading the book I have on Norse mythology (not done with it actually) I was personally confused about the whole Ragnarok thing. At first it sounded like a Norse version of the Ameggeddon (End of the World), but then sometimes it sounds more like it's just the End of the world for the gods. Like the day they cease to be worshipped and a big war breaks out and they get killed. And when it sounds like the second one it sounds like it has already happened. Or at the very least some of the time it does.

I'm still confused.

But....back to Odin being dead. I mean, I could have this figured out all wrong, but aren't the gods ususally more than one god (different pantheons) at the same time. Like how they correspond. Certainly, I have heard correspondences for some of the gods and goddesses that have varried greatly. The theories people have on who corresponds to who don't always match, but.....anyway, what I'm saying is that, even if Odin is said to have died in Norse myth, maybe he isn't said to have died in another and may be alive and well in some of his other forms.

Or if he was reincarnated, maybe he can put on his old skin, so to speak.

[Stukov]

While I was reading the book I have on Norse mythology (not done with it actually) I was personally confused about the whole Ragnarok thing. At first it sounded like a Norse version of the Ameggeddon (End of the World), but then sometimes it sounds more like it's just the End of the world for the gods. Like the day they cease to be worshipped and a big war breaks out and they get killed. And when it sounds like the second one it sounds like it has already happened. Or at the very least some of the time it does.

I'm still confused.

But....back to Odin being dead. I mean, I could have this figured out all wrong, but aren't the gods ususally more than one god (different pantheons) at the same time. Like how they correspond. Certainly, I have heard correspondences for some of the gods and goddesses that have varried greatly. The theories people have on who corresponds to who don't always match, but.....anyway, what I'm saying is that, even if Odin is said to have died in Norse myth, maybe he isn't said to have died in another and may be alive and well in some of his other forms.

Or if he was reincarnated, maybe he can put on his old skin, so to speak.

Yeah, Ragnarok was a prophecy for how their "end of the world for Asgard" would play out. To my knowledge it didn't play out as it was foretold, at least not with all who was supposedly would die and live. As to my knowledge, Odin did "die", but that doesn't mean he is gone forever. I can't be for sure, but I've had visions/stories/memories of lots of spiritual beings and gods dying and because of a set certain events perpetuated by a certain individual, all the dead angels, demons, gods, spirits, etc have been "reborn" into human form. That is why somewhere on this forum I started a post about that very thing as I have my own memories and evidence to who I was, in addition I have since found others who are like me with the same sorts of memories and evidence to who they were.

So I guess yeah, Odin (among others) did "die", but to my knowledge there is no reason why they should be different than the others that died more recently and was reborn in human bodies. In all likelihood if Odin is around, he (could be reborn as a she for all i know) has probably had the same memories and evidence to who they were and visited forums, websites, even visited with people about what they think of Odin. It is very interesting to see what people think of you when you are one of them. It is also interesting to see how they react when you try to correct a story from your memories about what happened.

Anyways, off on a short road trip, la voce kee na tiunen baroot.

[Nahemah]

Our Gods of the North died,yet they live on in us and through us because they were our ancestors.
We carry the bloodline,the memories are genetic,buried deep within in some.We are all that went before us and more.It's psychospiritual evolution,if you will.

This is something which was known as the Disir,in times of old.The guardian spirit of families who walk with us,even now,if we choose to accept her and a guiding force for those who keep the old stories and memories alive and integrate such with what and whom and where we are now and where we are going to.Past,present,future.The weavers and the web.

That is my view,but then I'm not Asatru,merely Heathen.YMMV.

[TheSeeker]

But....back to Odin being dead. I mean, I could have this figured out all wrong, but aren't the gods ususally more than one god (different pantheons) at the same time. Like how they correspond. Certainly, I have heard correspondences for some of the gods and goddesses that have varried greatly.

I think, Ocultess, if I may, you are crossing the boundary between identification of a specific individual as a deity, and the notion of archetypal categorization brought about through cross-cultural contact. For example and with relevence to the current topic, the Romans identified Odin/Woden of the Northern European Celto-Germanic People as "Gaulish Mercury". This doesn't mean that Odin and Mercury are the same Dude. It means that the occupying Romans were making use of similarities between the two deities as a means of fitting something that was strange and foreign to them into their world view.

As to the question of whether or not Odin/Woden is dead:
IMHO: yes and no.
This is all just off the top of my head following the morning wake n' bake, btw... [eek]

However, I feel that it is extremely important to bear in mind that the worship of Odin/Woden was not exclusive to the Norse. As I noted above, Julius Caesar was aware of him in Gaul; but then later, belief in him continued among the Frisians, the Engles and the Saxons. These latter groups are particularly interesting because of the Shamanic aspect reflected by their identification of Woden as the progenitor/ancestor of their cultural groups. And as far as I can recall, there are writings about Odin as late as the 1100 or 1200's. So, yeah. He could be dead. If he was a historical clan ancestor or something like that then he certainly is dead!

However, Bjorn's post is entitled "Asatru Prophecy", and given that Reconstructionist Old Norse religious belief has grown and continues to grow, I think if we're talking about the particular combination of qualities that comprise the archetypal energy people identify as Odin --or other Celto-Euro-Norse deities for that matter-- then no, he's not dead. He's simply evolved into something that, like the Romans, folks today are better able to fit into their world view.

This whole discussion makes me think of American Gods... [geek2]

[Nahemah]

Heh,my own wake n bake,made me come over all allegorical,lol.

Thanks for this part,TheSeeker,especially:

"These latter groups are particularly interesting because of the Shamanic aspect reflected by their identification of Woden as the progenitor/ancestor of their cultural groups. "

It 's what I meant,but I garbled it a bit.Though,my cultural group identify him as Odin too.We are a mixture of cultures hereabouts and so much is syncretic,that it can be difficult to relate through the mythologies alone.

I think the myths and legends are of more than one individual alone,much has been added to and remembered and we [those of my particular path,that is,this 'we' I speak of here] see those we honour as Gods, as being the spirits of the once living and now mighty dead.Their deeds immortalise them and their influence continues to sway us,they live on in us and through us generation after generation,they only die if they become forgotten and are no longer kept in our minds,hearts and methods of living.
It is a curse to us,to be forgotten after death.Our death rituals celebrate life and vitality and we remember the one who is departed by talking of their lives and singing their songs and toasting their memories.

A much lesser example than Odin,perhaps but I still stop and think,to this day,what would my grandmother do,when sticky situations arise.She is still with me,her wisdom and life experience colours mine and this wil passon too,as I talk often of her good sense and admirable qualities with my own son and daughters.
She had a fiery temper,though,lol and we all share that as well.

A bit of pop culture from me now,lol:

Buliwyf:
'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see...
Herger the Joyous:
My mother, and my sisters, and my brothers.
Buliwyf:
'Lo, there do I see...
Herger the Joyous:
The line of my people...
Edgtho the Silent:
Back to the beginning.
Weath the Musician:
'Lo, they do call to me.
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan:
They bid me take my place among them.
Buliwyf:
In the halls of Valhalla...
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan:
Where the brave...
Herger the Joyous:
May live...
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: ...forever.


This is scripted for the film Thirteenth Warrior,but it describes similar chants that capture this immortality,many of those who watch the film find this resonant with them and they remember it long after the film fades in memory.Funny that,eh?

The Vikings in this Film were The Rus people.


Also,this:The story of Odin,Vil and Ve is something that Bjorn should explore in relation to his vision.