Original post: durki
Buddha had married, begot a child and then gone to forest to contemplate so as to find answers to the riddle of human existence. He claimed that last vestige of evil & desires including sex dropped off from him in the final stage of his penance and he attained illumination with the ability to peep into past & future. He was able to see that he had been animal & other forms of life in various earlier births. His life shows us to continuously evolve ourselves without condemning any body or any thing. He said that no particular person is special and so any idea of there being a God some where who is our Boss is preposterous.
Jesus claimed himself to be a born divine being and condemned those who did not live life free from evil & sex. He wanted others to have faith in him & him alone.
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Original post: Astral Tempest
Did he though? Gnostic belief differs as to whether he was born divine or not. Jesus seemed to be preach a tolerant message completely at odds with a lot of the Old Testament.Jesus claimed himself to be a born divine being
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Original post: Dunhill
He never made such a claim. It was also Paul who was much more anti-sex.
For the last statement, all religious figures want peoplt to believe in them and not the 'competition'.
Does this also not mean that sex is somehow inherently evil - or perhaps impure would be a better term? If not, then why would it need to be avoided and transcended in order to reach enlightenment.
One major difference. Buddhism teached detachment from the world. Xianity seen the world as God's creation and as such becoming closer to nature means being closer to God.
durki wrote:Jesus claimed himself to be a born divine being and condemned those who did not live life free from evil & sex. He wanted others to have faith in him & him alone.
He never made such a claim. It was also Paul who was much more anti-sex.
For the last statement, all religious figures want peoplt to believe in them and not the 'competition'.
He claimed that last vestige of evil & desires including sex dropped off from him in the final stage of his penance and he attained illumination with the ability to peep into past & future.
Does this also not mean that sex is somehow inherently evil - or perhaps impure would be a better term? If not, then why would it need to be avoided and transcended in order to reach enlightenment.
One major difference. Buddhism teached detachment from the world. Xianity seen the world as God's creation and as such becoming closer to nature means being closer to God.
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Original post: durki
In the dictionary of buddhism; words 'sinner', 'demon/devil', 'satan' et cetera are non-existent. As per buddhist school of thought, worst rogue of today will become saint in the future after paying the necessary price of evolution.
In christianity, there are only two groups of people. Those who believe in the lord and they will go to heaven. Those who do not believe in the lord and they will go to hell.
It goes without saying that christianity does not recognize souls in trees, insects, reptiles, animals, birds et cetera. As per buddhism, sub-human life forms will re-incarnate as humans after having had many births as lower species.
In the dictionary of buddhism; words 'sinner', 'demon/devil', 'satan' et cetera are non-existent. As per buddhist school of thought, worst rogue of today will become saint in the future after paying the necessary price of evolution.
In christianity, there are only two groups of people. Those who believe in the lord and they will go to heaven. Those who do not believe in the lord and they will go to hell.
It goes without saying that christianity does not recognize souls in trees, insects, reptiles, animals, birds et cetera. As per buddhism, sub-human life forms will re-incarnate as humans after having had many births as lower species.
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Original post: TransPersonal
I personally don't think there's anything which an enlightened christian mystic and an enlightened buddhist monk would disagree on. All traditions and paths are merely vehicles to that state of attainment called Realization. Sure the paths may vary but ultimately you wind up in the same place. Some roads may take longer, others are shorter but more dangerous, but the end is the same. The many beliefs in different traditions are merely psychological supports, they change as the aspirant evolves. The truths of the novice or neophyte are relative and merely a plaything for the Adept.
As for those relative differences, you must understand that Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or Moses or any preacher for that matter needs to modify his teachings to suit the maturity and character of the people. Some people may be more receptive to higher transcendent knowledge than others. To them Jesus may have revealed esoteric techniques, but to the averge man who is head deep in vulgar impulses, to him he needed to instill fear of an imaginary being who would punish him if he does bad things. Almost like the scary stories we tell kids to keep them well behaved. Unfortunately the majority of mankind are still toddlers. Someday they will get there though...
I personally don't think there's anything which an enlightened christian mystic and an enlightened buddhist monk would disagree on. All traditions and paths are merely vehicles to that state of attainment called Realization. Sure the paths may vary but ultimately you wind up in the same place. Some roads may take longer, others are shorter but more dangerous, but the end is the same. The many beliefs in different traditions are merely psychological supports, they change as the aspirant evolves. The truths of the novice or neophyte are relative and merely a plaything for the Adept.
As for those relative differences, you must understand that Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or Moses or any preacher for that matter needs to modify his teachings to suit the maturity and character of the people. Some people may be more receptive to higher transcendent knowledge than others. To them Jesus may have revealed esoteric techniques, but to the averge man who is head deep in vulgar impulses, to him he needed to instill fear of an imaginary being who would punish him if he does bad things. Almost like the scary stories we tell kids to keep them well behaved. Unfortunately the majority of mankind are still toddlers. Someday they will get there though...
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Original post: Shiva-Shakti
The language of Jesus and other "prophets" in the Bible are very fiery. The language that they speak in is very course. For instance when jesus declared he was the "son of god" he was saying that he had become a buddha (an awakened one) and the "kingdom of god" meant enlightenment. Somewhere in the bible it say "you shall also be sons of god" saying that you all shall also become enlightened too. Many people have misinterpreted what Jesus says because they took his words literally.
Buddha on the other hand was the son of a king and was very educated so we can be sure that what Buddha the son of a king and Jesus the son of a carpenter say are going to differ. Their message is essentially the same but the words used to express them differ.
Also Jesus had visited buddhist monastaries before preaching. I believe the monasteries in Sri Lanka in their records state that a person named Joshua (Jesus) of Nazareth had come to their temple.
-Shiva-Shakti
The language of Jesus and other "prophets" in the Bible are very fiery. The language that they speak in is very course. For instance when jesus declared he was the "son of god" he was saying that he had become a buddha (an awakened one) and the "kingdom of god" meant enlightenment. Somewhere in the bible it say "you shall also be sons of god" saying that you all shall also become enlightened too. Many people have misinterpreted what Jesus says because they took his words literally.
Buddha on the other hand was the son of a king and was very educated so we can be sure that what Buddha the son of a king and Jesus the son of a carpenter say are going to differ. Their message is essentially the same but the words used to express them differ.
Also Jesus had visited buddhist monastaries before preaching. I believe the monasteries in Sri Lanka in their records state that a person named Joshua (Jesus) of Nazareth had come to their temple.
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Original post: Dunhill
On the contrairy. With the advent of technology making communication and travel much easier, there has been much discussion in cross-faith circles about who exactly reaches heaven. In general modern dogma, it is quite possible for non-Xians to go to heaven, or at least not go to hell. This discounts the fundamentalists who take 'there is no way but through me' literally meaning only Xians go to heaven.
The concept of sould in non-human entities (rocks, trees and birds for example) does not fit well in Xianity as there is no reincarnation hence no progression upwards.
JC was also talking to a much different audience in a much different culture.
durki wrote:In christianity, there are only two groups of people. Those who believe in the lord and they will go to heaven. Those who do not believe in the lord and they will go to hell.
On the contrairy. With the advent of technology making communication and travel much easier, there has been much discussion in cross-faith circles about who exactly reaches heaven. In general modern dogma, it is quite possible for non-Xians to go to heaven, or at least not go to hell. This discounts the fundamentalists who take 'there is no way but through me' literally meaning only Xians go to heaven.
durki wrote:It goes without saying that christianity does not recognize souls in trees, insects, reptiles, animals, birds et cetera. As per buddhism, sub-human life forms will re-incarnate as humans after having had many births as lower species.
The concept of sould in non-human entities (rocks, trees and birds for example) does not fit well in Xianity as there is no reincarnation hence no progression upwards.
shiva-shakti wrote:The language of Jesus and other "prophets" in the Bible are very fiery. The language that they speak in is very course.
JC was also talking to a much different audience in a much different culture.
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Original post: Marduke
Just love Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua) and worship him only; Budha is just a avatar or typical spiritual human that walked the earth, just respect some of his beliefs.
Just love Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua) and worship him only; Budha is just a avatar or typical spiritual human that walked the earth, just respect some of his beliefs.
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Original post: Centrix
These characters of your world are mere creations. I am the master puppeteer behind your animated world, past and present. In me alone you shall find yourself. Return to your master, my slave.
These characters of your world are mere creations. I am the master puppeteer behind your animated world, past and present. In me alone you shall find yourself. Return to your master, my slave.
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Original post: Dracophoenix
Centrix This is your First Official warning! There is no need to behave in such a manner towards other members!
If you have something that relates to the topic at hand feel free to comment. You want to play control games there are plenty of other sites that welcome that kind behaviour but we are an OCCULT forum NOT an S&M or B&D forum.
Three official warnings equals being banned!
Centrix This is your First Official warning! There is no need to behave in such a manner towards other members!
If you have something that relates to the topic at hand feel free to comment. You want to play control games there are plenty of other sites that welcome that kind behaviour but we are an OCCULT forum NOT an S&M or B&D forum.
Three official warnings equals being banned!
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Original post: durki
Buddha's aura is said to have encompassed a circle of 12 KMs radius. Once a man named Angulimala who was a dreaded murderer & dacoit of those times got into Buddha's ambit. It took Buddha only a few minutes to convert him into a peace-loving spiritual seeker.
Mary Magdalene was a sinner who became penitent and anointed Jesus' feet. Jesus forgave all her sins and healed her of maladies & ailments.
Buddha's aura is said to have encompassed a circle of 12 KMs radius. Once a man named Angulimala who was a dreaded murderer & dacoit of those times got into Buddha's ambit. It took Buddha only a few minutes to convert him into a peace-loving spiritual seeker.
Mary Magdalene was a sinner who became penitent and anointed Jesus' feet. Jesus forgave all her sins and healed her of maladies & ailments.
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Original post: hxaosanto
True, unadulterated Christianity is not what you are arguing against. You are arguing against, mainly, Paul and all the church organizations and extra doctrines that have come afterwards. But, also know that many of those doctrines are like Jesus' speech: aimed at the less intelligent and those of child-like minds. Read only Jesus' words from the New Testament, without bias for or against, then tell us what you think.
Or can we assume that you are a Buddhist and are trying to convert us all into Buddhists? No, thanks; I decided to not be Buddhist a couple of years ago. I don't want to enter a religion where people are space cases, follow traditions blindly (especially traditions that weren't written by the Buddha himself), and which was founded by a person who abandoned his family and was a sexist pig.
TransPersonal said it quite well: Jesus was talking to people, most of whom were on a very low level of understanding. So, he spoke to them as he would speak to an errant child. When I speak with someone, whether I'm speaking on spiritual matters or not, I modify my language so that the other person can understand me. It's called "communication". Of course, I disagree that "Someday they will get there", but that's my take on things.TransPersonal;268643 wrote:I personally don't think there's anything which an enlightened christian mystic and an enlightened buddhist monk would disagree on. All traditions and paths are merely vehicles to that state of attainment called Realization...
As for those relative differences, you must understand that Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or Moses or any preacher for that matter needs to modify his teachings to suit the maturity and character of the people. Some people may be more receptive to higher transcendent knowledge than others. To them Jesus may have revealed esoteric techniques, but to the average man who is head deep in vulgar impulses, to him he needed to instill fear of an imaginary being who would punish him if he does bad things. Almost like the scary stories we tell kids to keep them well behaved. Unfortunately the majority of mankind are still toddlers. Someday they will get there though...
True, unadulterated Christianity is not what you are arguing against. You are arguing against, mainly, Paul and all the church organizations and extra doctrines that have come afterwards. But, also know that many of those doctrines are like Jesus' speech: aimed at the less intelligent and those of child-like minds. Read only Jesus' words from the New Testament, without bias for or against, then tell us what you think.
Or can we assume that you are a Buddhist and are trying to convert us all into Buddhists? No, thanks; I decided to not be Buddhist a couple of years ago. I don't want to enter a religion where people are space cases, follow traditions blindly (especially traditions that weren't written by the Buddha himself), and which was founded by a person who abandoned his family and was a sexist pig.
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Original post: Dunhill
What Jesus says in the Bible is already biased by the emerging orthodoxy. Read several of the gnostic texts - Thomas and to some extent John for example - and you can see some definite Buddhist trains of thought. The flesh and material world are illusions and must be transcended to reach heaven. Not surprising considering Buddhism was known in Alexandria (and doubtlessly other places) at the time.
hxaosanto wrote:True, unadulterated Christianity is not what you are arguing against. You are arguing against, mainly, Paul and all the church organizations and extra doctrines that have come afterwards. But, also know that many of those doctrines are like Jesus' speech: aimed at the less intelligent and those of child-like minds. Read only Jesus' words from the New Testament, without bias for or against, then tell us what you think.
What Jesus says in the Bible is already biased by the emerging orthodoxy. Read several of the gnostic texts - Thomas and to some extent John for example - and you can see some definite Buddhist trains of thought. The flesh and material world are illusions and must be transcended to reach heaven. Not surprising considering Buddhism was known in Alexandria (and doubtlessly other places) at the time.
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Original post: HaZe
what a silly debate... Obviously the veil of words is a little too thick for some people... Right now.... As we speak... Jesus and Buddha are brothers... in "heaven"... If they were reading this... which they are not.... they would be shaking their heads (and perhaps laughing with joy).... because you are missing the point...
what a silly debate... Obviously the veil of words is a little too thick for some people... Right now.... As we speak... Jesus and Buddha are brothers... in "heaven"... If they were reading this... which they are not.... they would be shaking their heads (and perhaps laughing with joy).... because you are missing the point...
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Original post: winged one
This assumption is based on the false idea that the bible correctly relates everything jesus taught and believed. The idea of Jesus' divinity does not appear chronologically until the last gospel which was written around 110 ce. The idea was something pushed by later church members because it gave Jesus more legitimacy and authority. You tell me how likely it was that an account of Jesus written a hundred years after his death was accurate.
This is quite true and is the biggest problem with christianity as a religion, a bunch of idiots interpreting it at their spiritual maturity level. The same problem also holds true for Buddhism...a bunch of people thinking they can get enlightened by intellectually or in some cases stupidly understanding what Buddha meant. Although at least Buddha had some other teachings that are like fail safes for dummies that don't allow them to go around crusading against each other.
When Buddha teaches detachment and Jesus says "to be in the world but not of the world" they mean the same thing. In my personal experience (humble as it may) this does not mean ignoring the world or debasing it or thinking it's unworthy of your time. Detachment does not mean the same thing spiritually as it does psychologically. If anything with the spiritual concept of detachment you're more present in the world. or maybe more of you is present.
That's the church's version. Not jesus' Sin that's another one of those things that christians are too busy interpreting at a base level. I think Jesus was a genius surrounded by idiots. I'm sure a lot of modern Buddhist have more in common with him and his teachings then christians do.
Said in genius I think. Although I would at least read some (non-biased) biblical scholarship to find all of Jesus' words...like what was most likely added later (his divinity as I said, and also to read the stuff the church tried to burn after they had the big meeting to consolidate church teachings and decide what they wanted to keep and what didn't serve their version of Jesus.
I'm not sure why we have to try and make Jesus Buddhist with theories about him learning it from some where. We know he was influenced by other forward Jewish thinkers of the time. In any case if some of his teachings are like Buddha's teachings perhaps that's because they're truthful rather then Buddhist.
As for divinity, I think Jesus believed in the idea of us all as divine . He said the kingdom of heaven is present now and in you. Very vedic also.
Wow, I can't believe I'm defending Jesus. Great stuff you all.
durki;267092 wrote: Jesus claimed himself to be a born divine being and condemned those who did not live life free from evil & sex. He wanted others to have faith in him & him alone.
This assumption is based on the false idea that the bible correctly relates everything jesus taught and believed. The idea of Jesus' divinity does not appear chronologically until the last gospel which was written around 110 ce. The idea was something pushed by later church members because it gave Jesus more legitimacy and authority. You tell me how likely it was that an account of Jesus written a hundred years after his death was accurate.
hxaosanto wrote:TransPersonal said it quite well: Jesus was talking to people, most of whom were on a very low level of understanding. So, he spoke to them as he would speak to an errant child. When I speak with someone, whether I'm speaking on spiritual matters or not, I modify my language so that the other person can understand me. It's called "communication". Of course, I disagree that "Someday they will get there", but that's my take on things.
This is quite true and is the biggest problem with christianity as a religion, a bunch of idiots interpreting it at their spiritual maturity level. The same problem also holds true for Buddhism...a bunch of people thinking they can get enlightened by intellectually or in some cases stupidly understanding what Buddha meant. Although at least Buddha had some other teachings that are like fail safes for dummies that don't allow them to go around crusading against each other.
Dunhill wrote:One major difference. Buddhism teached detachment from the world.
When Buddha teaches detachment and Jesus says "to be in the world but not of the world" they mean the same thing. In my personal experience (humble as it may) this does not mean ignoring the world or debasing it or thinking it's unworthy of your time. Detachment does not mean the same thing spiritually as it does psychologically. If anything with the spiritual concept of detachment you're more present in the world. or maybe more of you is present.
durki wrote:Mary Magdalene was a sinner who became penitent and anointed Jesus' feet. Jesus forgave all her sins and healed her of maladies & ailments.
That's the church's version. Not jesus' Sin that's another one of those things that christians are too busy interpreting at a base level. I think Jesus was a genius surrounded by idiots. I'm sure a lot of modern Buddhist have more in common with him and his teachings then christians do.
hxaosant wrote:True, unadulterated Christianity is not what you are arguing against. You are arguing against, mainly, Paul and all the church organizations and extra doctrines that have come afterwards. But, also know that many of those doctrines are like Jesus' speech: aimed at the less intelligent and those of child-like minds. Read only Jesus' words from the New Testament, without bias for or against, then tell us what you think.
Said in genius I think. Although I would at least read some (non-biased) biblical scholarship to find all of Jesus' words...like what was most likely added later (his divinity as I said, and also to read the stuff the church tried to burn after they had the big meeting to consolidate church teachings and decide what they wanted to keep and what didn't serve their version of Jesus.
I'm not sure why we have to try and make Jesus Buddhist with theories about him learning it from some where. We know he was influenced by other forward Jewish thinkers of the time. In any case if some of his teachings are like Buddha's teachings perhaps that's because they're truthful rather then Buddhist.
As for divinity, I think Jesus believed in the idea of us all as divine . He said the kingdom of heaven is present now and in you. Very vedic also.
Wow, I can't believe I'm defending Jesus. Great stuff you all.
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Original post: durki
Buddhist texts say that Maitreya Bodhisattva will be the successor of the historic Siddharth Goutam Buddha. He will be a friendly laughing Buddha.
Bible predicts second coming of Christ. They say that it is round the corner and Jesus will judge all. Also eternal life for those judged favourably is predicted in New Jerusalem.
Buddhist texts say that Maitreya Bodhisattva will be the successor of the historic Siddharth Goutam Buddha. He will be a friendly laughing Buddha.
Bible predicts second coming of Christ. They say that it is round the corner and Jesus will judge all. Also eternal life for those judged favourably is predicted in New Jerusalem.
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Original post: Dunhill
Fair enough - I was still channeling the gnostics as I recently finished a book on them. To explain a little further gnostics found the world to be an evil creation. Orthodox saw the world as a beautiful place as it was created by God and it is mankind's job to be caretaker of that world. From my understanding of Buddhish, its opinion of creation is somewhere between the two.
By Buddhist eschatology is pretty slim - ok, non existant. What will this Second Coming do?
However your Xian opinion is only one of many. 'The Kingdom of God is at hand' can also be taken as to mean the world is indeed the Kingdom of God. Urzeit ist endzeit vs. urzeit ist jetzt. There are also very few Xians that believe that the New Jerusalem will be in the place of the Old Jerusalem. There is also much speculation regarding the final judgement. While the Catholic Church says there is no salvation outside the church (although there may be different 'levels' of salvation), many Protestants don't take 'there is no way to the Kingdom except through me' as exclusionary, i.e. non-Xians are also capable of salvation.
Could you be a little more specific in your statements rather than one liners without any context? This is an interesting discussion.
winged one wrote:When Buddha teaches detachment and Jesus says "to be in the world but not of the world" they mean the same thing. In my personal experience (humble as it may) this does not mean ignoring the world or debasing it or thinking it's unworthy of your time. Detachment does not mean the same thing spiritually as it does psychologically. If anything with the spiritual concept of detachment you're more present in the world. or maybe more of you is present.
Fair enough - I was still channeling the gnostics as I recently finished a book on them. To explain a little further gnostics found the world to be an evil creation. Orthodox saw the world as a beautiful place as it was created by God and it is mankind's job to be caretaker of that world. From my understanding of Buddhish, its opinion of creation is somewhere between the two.
durki wrote:Buddhist texts say that Maitreya Bodhisattva will be the successor of the historic Siddharth Goutam Buddha. He will be a friendly laughing Buddha.
Bible predicts second coming of Christ. They say that it is round the corner and Jesus will judge all. Also eternal life for those judged favourably is predicted in New Jerusalem.
By Buddhist eschatology is pretty slim - ok, non existant. What will this Second Coming do?
However your Xian opinion is only one of many. 'The Kingdom of God is at hand' can also be taken as to mean the world is indeed the Kingdom of God. Urzeit ist endzeit vs. urzeit ist jetzt. There are also very few Xians that believe that the New Jerusalem will be in the place of the Old Jerusalem. There is also much speculation regarding the final judgement. While the Catholic Church says there is no salvation outside the church (although there may be different 'levels' of salvation), many Protestants don't take 'there is no way to the Kingdom except through me' as exclusionary, i.e. non-Xians are also capable of salvation.
Could you be a little more specific in your statements rather than one liners without any context? This is an interesting discussion.
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Original post: hxaosanto
durki, what is your point? Why did you start this conversation? I only see you issuing proclamations and judgments.
durki, what is your point? Why did you start this conversation? I only see you issuing proclamations and judgments.
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Original post: winged one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunhill
Fair enough - I was still channeling the gnostics as I recently finished a book on them. To explain a little further gnostics found the world to be an evil creation. Orthodox saw the world as a beautiful place as it was created by God and it is mankind's job to be caretaker of that world. From my understanding of Buddhish, its opinion of creation is somewhere between the two.
That's interesting, about the gnostics. Although I'd have to say Orthodox didn't take very long to decide the whole dominion over the earth thing gave man the excuse to do whatever he wanted to the earth. I never really thought about what Jesus' attitude about caretaking the world would be. I haven't read a lot of Jewish stuff but they (as in the jews around and before jesus' time) didn't seem to be particularly interested in seeing the world as a part of them..or something to take care of. Hmm...food for thought.
Of course my experience with that modern day fundamentalist sect of christianity is that they use that whole be in the world not of the world thing to stay out of anything secular. They see the world as an evil place, and therefor anything not christian is not to be participated in. It's sad really.
Personally I think in a lot of ways Jesus and Buddha are non comparable. They're a bit like apples an oranges. Sure it may be a relevant issue for anyone trying to find The One True Path..or something like that. I think Jesus was a spiritually adept man who still had a lot of the faults and limitations of his day and culture. He may have been a spiritually astute man but he was also pretty wordly as he was basically a social revolutionary. He was advocating change in an already existing system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hxaosanto
durki, what is your point? Why did you start this conversation? I only see you issuing proclamations and judgments.
Yes proclaimations...and mostly based on limited assumptions formed from surface knowledge of the subject.
Some interesting conversations have resulted in any case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunhill
Fair enough - I was still channeling the gnostics as I recently finished a book on them. To explain a little further gnostics found the world to be an evil creation. Orthodox saw the world as a beautiful place as it was created by God and it is mankind's job to be caretaker of that world. From my understanding of Buddhish, its opinion of creation is somewhere between the two.
That's interesting, about the gnostics. Although I'd have to say Orthodox didn't take very long to decide the whole dominion over the earth thing gave man the excuse to do whatever he wanted to the earth. I never really thought about what Jesus' attitude about caretaking the world would be. I haven't read a lot of Jewish stuff but they (as in the jews around and before jesus' time) didn't seem to be particularly interested in seeing the world as a part of them..or something to take care of. Hmm...food for thought.
Of course my experience with that modern day fundamentalist sect of christianity is that they use that whole be in the world not of the world thing to stay out of anything secular. They see the world as an evil place, and therefor anything not christian is not to be participated in. It's sad really.
Personally I think in a lot of ways Jesus and Buddha are non comparable. They're a bit like apples an oranges. Sure it may be a relevant issue for anyone trying to find The One True Path..or something like that. I think Jesus was a spiritually adept man who still had a lot of the faults and limitations of his day and culture. He may have been a spiritually astute man but he was also pretty wordly as he was basically a social revolutionary. He was advocating change in an already existing system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hxaosanto
durki, what is your point? Why did you start this conversation? I only see you issuing proclamations and judgments.
Yes proclaimations...and mostly based on limited assumptions formed from surface knowledge of the subject.
Some interesting conversations have resulted in any case.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: Nam
I see very little of either Jesus' or Buddha's wisdom in durki's posts here. He seems only to be caught up in the trappings of the ego, which both ascended masters warned against.
I see very little of either Jesus' or Buddha's wisdom in durki's posts here. He seems only to be caught up in the trappings of the ego, which both ascended masters warned against.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: durki
[QUOTE=Nam;287438]I see very little of either Jesus' or Buddha's wisdom in durki's posts here. He seems only to be caught up in the trappings of the ego, which both ascended masters warned against.[/QUOTE]
You may please post techniques to become egoless so that not only I but others may also be benefitted.
[QUOTE=Nam;287438]I see very little of either Jesus' or Buddha's wisdom in durki's posts here. He seems only to be caught up in the trappings of the ego, which both ascended masters warned against.[/QUOTE]
You may please post techniques to become egoless so that not only I but others may also be benefitted.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: Anathema_Oracle
Jesus offered faith, buddha offered a dialectic. Both have been eulogized, deified, imparted with supernatural abilities and now both are being overtaken by the New Age movement as representations of enlightened beings.
In my opinion you can find value and worthiness in a lot of human beings, those rare ones that cultivate the humane concept of freedom from delusion and an ethic for life.
I think the useful lesson to be taken from historical figures of this nature is that anybody can likewise attain at least of modicum of kindness, openess and tolerance towards other humans. These people lived in an age that was unfair and cruel. Likewise we live in an age that is unfair and cruel. We just have the benefit of an extra two thousand years of thinking and 'progress.'
Attaching supernatural beliefs to these people doesn't do them or their 'teaching' any justice.
As I read somewhere: "I would have no problem with religion if everybody was a Quaker or a practising Therevada buddhist".
Seneca, Voltaire, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Kiekergaard and Nietszche are also enlightened masters in their own right. Just few people read or know about them as they never attained any deification.
The other difference is that Jesus and Buddha ''led' by example, something I guess, few philosophers manage to do.
Jesus offered faith, buddha offered a dialectic. Both have been eulogized, deified, imparted with supernatural abilities and now both are being overtaken by the New Age movement as representations of enlightened beings.
In my opinion you can find value and worthiness in a lot of human beings, those rare ones that cultivate the humane concept of freedom from delusion and an ethic for life.
I think the useful lesson to be taken from historical figures of this nature is that anybody can likewise attain at least of modicum of kindness, openess and tolerance towards other humans. These people lived in an age that was unfair and cruel. Likewise we live in an age that is unfair and cruel. We just have the benefit of an extra two thousand years of thinking and 'progress.'
Attaching supernatural beliefs to these people doesn't do them or their 'teaching' any justice.
As I read somewhere: "I would have no problem with religion if everybody was a Quaker or a practising Therevada buddhist".
Seneca, Voltaire, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Kiekergaard and Nietszche are also enlightened masters in their own right. Just few people read or know about them as they never attained any deification.
The other difference is that Jesus and Buddha ''led' by example, something I guess, few philosophers manage to do.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: winged one
All wonderful points. So is it correct for me to assume that you don't believe either man did anything miraculous? Jesus spouted a lot of new ideas..or perhaps old ideas that his culture wasn't aware of or attending to, but he is known as a healer (taking anything new age out of it). In fact he was associated with healing and teaching equally. I am curious as to whether or not you think none of it actually happened as anything but the result of psychopomp or just embellishment of stories. I don't think you can separate the "Historical Jesus" from his association with healing. He was not attributed these abilities...rather the man he was was also this thing. Sure we could say it's like looking at a gifted Doctor 100 years after his death and attributing his miraculous cases to his supernatural ability, but I actually think Jesus has more parallel now with a modern day energy worker or shaman. You can't take the supernatural out of that. I've just seen and experienced too much not to believe it's possible the man could actually heal the blind.
There are also people who exist now who can perform the manifestation of such things as food, as Jesus did with the fish and loaves. Or the transmutation of say water into wine. One could argue that Jesus wasn't and isn't actually unique in this thing. But then if you believe none of it was miraculous undertakings..... Of course I never really gave any thought to the credence that jesus was performing miracles (beyond the healing) . I just straight out assumed it was bunk. Yet I do believe these men in India can do this. So therefor I'm having to at least consider the idea it was possible for jesus to perform miracles as well as healing.
Interesting that we were debating what Jesus meant by his teachings and you take away the idea that any of the miracles where real and look at him as person with a new philosophy. Am I understanding you correctly?:) When looked at that way there wouldn't be any point in worrying about his abilities beyond the norm. He would be in the same catergory as Nietszche etc.
I guess it depend on whether you see science as valid truth and supernatural as not. I think if you do you're really missing half the boat.
Anathema_Oracle;287480 wrote:Jesus offered faith, buddha offered a dialectic. Both have been eulogized, deified, imparted with supernatural abilities and now both are being overtaken by the New Age movement as representations of enlightened beings.
In my opinion you can find value and worthiness in a lot of human beings, those rare ones that cultivate the humane concept of freedom from delusion and an ethic for life.
I think the useful lesson to be taken from historical figures of this nature is that anybody can likewise attain at least of modicum of kindness, openess and tolerance towards other humans. These people lived in an age that was unfair and cruel. Likewise we live in an age that is unfair and cruel. We just have the benefit of an extra two thousand years of thinking and 'progress.'
Attaching supernatural beliefs to these people doesn't do them or their 'teaching' any justice.
As I read somewhere: "I would have no problem with religion if everybody was a Quaker or a practising Therevada buddhist".
Seneca, Voltaire, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Kiekergaard and Nietszche are also enlightened masters in their own right. Just few people read or know about them as they never attained any deification.
The other difference is that Jesus and Buddha ''led' by example, something I guess, few philosophers manage to do.
All wonderful points. So is it correct for me to assume that you don't believe either man did anything miraculous? Jesus spouted a lot of new ideas..or perhaps old ideas that his culture wasn't aware of or attending to, but he is known as a healer (taking anything new age out of it). In fact he was associated with healing and teaching equally. I am curious as to whether or not you think none of it actually happened as anything but the result of psychopomp or just embellishment of stories. I don't think you can separate the "Historical Jesus" from his association with healing. He was not attributed these abilities...rather the man he was was also this thing. Sure we could say it's like looking at a gifted Doctor 100 years after his death and attributing his miraculous cases to his supernatural ability, but I actually think Jesus has more parallel now with a modern day energy worker or shaman. You can't take the supernatural out of that. I've just seen and experienced too much not to believe it's possible the man could actually heal the blind.
There are also people who exist now who can perform the manifestation of such things as food, as Jesus did with the fish and loaves. Or the transmutation of say water into wine. One could argue that Jesus wasn't and isn't actually unique in this thing. But then if you believe none of it was miraculous undertakings..... Of course I never really gave any thought to the credence that jesus was performing miracles (beyond the healing) . I just straight out assumed it was bunk. Yet I do believe these men in India can do this. So therefor I'm having to at least consider the idea it was possible for jesus to perform miracles as well as healing.
Interesting that we were debating what Jesus meant by his teachings and you take away the idea that any of the miracles where real and look at him as person with a new philosophy. Am I understanding you correctly?:) When looked at that way there wouldn't be any point in worrying about his abilities beyond the norm. He would be in the same catergory as Nietszche etc.
I guess it depend on whether you see science as valid truth and supernatural as not. I think if you do you're really missing half the boat.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: Anathema_Oracle
Maybe, but having come at it from both sides of the spectrum I'd say I can't rock the boat either way.
I think I was pointing out, that regardless of whether or not these people did do even half the miracles they have been credited with, though not by their own words, the basic humanitarian notions are the real spiritual truths in my opinion, the rest is fluff I'd say.
That's Jesus, as for the Buddha, from my limited understanding, he advocated deep introspection and a compassion for things. He also advocated skepticism that Descartes would have understood, questioning every notion and supposed illusion we have, some have, in my opinion taken that to an extreme.
Being that I see no neccesity, particularly in the age we find ourselves in, to speculate on things outside what we know and apply such speculations to how we actually live, the lessons I take are simple ethical ones.
I guess it depend on whether you see science as valid truth and supernatural as not. I think if you do you're really missing half the boat.
Maybe, but having come at it from both sides of the spectrum I'd say I can't rock the boat either way.
I think I was pointing out, that regardless of whether or not these people did do even half the miracles they have been credited with, though not by their own words, the basic humanitarian notions are the real spiritual truths in my opinion, the rest is fluff I'd say.
That's Jesus, as for the Buddha, from my limited understanding, he advocated deep introspection and a compassion for things. He also advocated skepticism that Descartes would have understood, questioning every notion and supposed illusion we have, some have, in my opinion taken that to an extreme.
Being that I see no neccesity, particularly in the age we find ourselves in, to speculate on things outside what we know and apply such speculations to how we actually live, the lessons I take are simple ethical ones.
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Buddha & Jesus
Original post: LadyHydralisk
Mary Magdelene was not condemned by Jesus, she was condemned by the town and rescued by Jesus.
Another thing I like about Siddhartha is his discovery of the middle way, between extreme asceticism and luxury. It is on the path of moderation that we find enlightenment, according to Buddhist tenets. This is also why I decided the pleasures of the five senses in moderation, in tantric application, are quite beneficial.
Furthermore, it is important to remember Siddhartha did not leave his palace because of his wife and child, he left because he saw a dying man. This disturbed him, obviously because he cared about life and wanted to know what the meaning of this suffering was.
Later, his wife, the princess, followed him and also became enlightened, attaining siddhis.
http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1810
durki;267092 wrote:Buddha had married, begot a child and then gone to forest to contemplate so as to find answers to the riddle of human existence. He claimed that last vestige of evil & desires including sex dropped off from him in the final stage of his penance and he attained illumination with the ability to peep into past & future. He was able to see that he had been animal & other forms of life in various earlier births. His life shows us to continuously evolve ourselves without condemning any body or any thing. He said that no particular person is special and so any idea of there being a God some where who is our Boss is preposterous.
Jesus claimed himself to be a born divine being and condemned those who did not live life free from evil & sex. He wanted others to have faith in him & him alone.
Mary Magdelene was not condemned by Jesus, she was condemned by the town and rescued by Jesus.
Another thing I like about Siddhartha is his discovery of the middle way, between extreme asceticism and luxury. It is on the path of moderation that we find enlightenment, according to Buddhist tenets. This is also why I decided the pleasures of the five senses in moderation, in tantric application, are quite beneficial.
Furthermore, it is important to remember Siddhartha did not leave his palace because of his wife and child, he left because he saw a dying man. This disturbed him, obviously because he cared about life and wanted to know what the meaning of this suffering was.
Later, his wife, the princess, followed him and also became enlightened, attaining siddhis.
http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1810
"Ghantapa was a celibate monk-scholar of the famous Nalanda monastic university in northeast India. When he refused an invitation to come to the palace of King Devapala (r. ca. 809-849), on the grounds of the king's insincerity, the king became angry and put a price on his celibacy to win the substantial reward, a local courtesan sent her beautiful daughter to seduce him. The girl eventually succeeded and the two became a couple. When she had borne Ghantapa a child, the king came to take revenge. With a large retinue he confronted Ghantapa with accusations. Ghantapa smashed the baby and his gourd of wine upon the ground. The earth opened and a flood of water gushed forth. Baby and gourd were transformed into a vajra and bell, which Ghantapa took up in his hands. Transforming into Paramasukha-Chakrasamvara Buddha, Ghantapa rose into the air with his consort, who transformed into Vajravarahi. Avalokiteshvara appeared to rescue Devapala and his retinue from the flood. They prayed for pardon and were initiated by Ghantapa into the magic Circle of Great Bliss.
Ghantapa and his consort are shown in union as Paramasukha-Chakrasamvara and Vajravarahi. His legs are drawn up onto the sloping pedestal and he balances his petite consort on his lap, possibly in the moment of rising into the air."